Le_Sigh, had a wonderful post (over here) worthy of starting it’s own thread.
Thank you. Le_Sigh. It’s nice to have someone use scripture in defense of their positions (hint, hint).
Oh, a point of clarification. I didn’t say “anyone who loves Jesus will keep his word.” The bible did does.
It would take volumes to address each point in Leviticus — many of the laws you stated have been “done away” with by Christ and the New Testament. Some however have not. Let’s look at just one in your list. Probably the most shocking…
If there is anyone who curses his father or his mother, he shall surely be put to death; he has cursed his father or his mother, his bloodguiltiness is upon him. Lev 20:9.
You also could have used the 5th Commandment. Or Exo 21:17; Deu 27:16; Pro 20:20, Pro 30:11, Pro 30:17
curses: The term yekallel signifies not only to curse, but to speak contemptuously, disrespectfully, or to make light of a person, so that all speeches which have a tendency to lessen our parents in the eyes of others, or to render their judgment, piety, etc., suspected or contemptible, is here included; though the act of cursing, or of treating the parent with injurious or opprobrious language, is what is particularly intended. [Source: Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge]
Now, some reading this will say “but that’s the old testament“… See Mat 15:4 or Mar 7:10
All of this comes in context too with how parents should treat their children. It seems God didn’t like the idea of abusing or killing children either, in earlier verses. But I digress…
The death penalty for children who rebel against their parents shows how seriously God takes rebellion and the role of parents and family hierarchy. More on this can be found here.
So when my children talk back — should I take them out and kill them? Of course not, there are laws against that. However, it is not permitted. Respect for authority and love and respect for each other is something that is taken seriously in our home.
I’m also reminded of the words of Satan at the beginning of creation. “Die? You will not surely die…”
But eventually Eve did die. As will I. When I do, I’ll be judged by a righteous holy God, who knew not only my every deed, but even my thoughts. And I can tell you, on my own merit, I’ll be found guilty.
That’s the purpose of the law: to show us our guilt. You may not think you are a bad person. AD may not think he is a bad person. But if you are humble and honest with yourself you’ll find that you are guilty of breaking God’s law. The question is, how can you - or anyone for that matter - be made right before a pure and holy God? (See John 3:1-21 for more.)
Do I have all the answers? Of course not. But by the grace of God, I can read what scripture plainly says, and no Christian church I know of disagrees on this point. You must repent of your sin (whatever your sin may be) to become a follower of Christ. You can call yourself a Christian or whatever you want, but without faith in Christ and repentance (turning from your sin) you can not be saved. At least that’s what the Bible says.
Again thank you for your comments. I want to reiterate that I am not judging you or AD. I am only relaying the what is in the Bible — not just about homosexuality — but about all sin. Rebellion, hate, lust, greed, unforgiveness… The log in my eye has been removed by Christ. And my true desire here is that you would allow me to ask you look in the mirror and see if there is a speck in your eye — and if you need help getting it out. Let me know, I know a great physician.
May God bless you and Merry Christmas.
December 25th, 2005 at 11:34 pm
Wait a minute. You didn’t answer ANYTHING. You’re saying you can commit any sin you like as long as you’re “sorry.” You’re asking people to be “sorry” for a sin that is only wrong because a book that’s been rewritten many times says it’s wrong, with no real explanation why it’s wrong. The bible says a disobedient child should be killed. So as long as you’re sorry you didn’t murder your child, it’s okay? We’re going to have to disagree there, because in Exodus it says that murder is wrong. Hmm. But one part says… ???
Besides, what about all the other listed sins? Do you commit those?
The point is: Someone else being gay, lesbian, trans, bi doesn’t hurt you. It doesn’t hurt God. Facts are facts. There were gay people before Judaism and Christianity. They’ll always exist.
On a side note: Don’t worry about my soul. If all you want to do is rant about the evils of the world and the homosexual agenda, maybe you ought to ask if God would be down with someone who speaks of the world as though he hates it.
December 27th, 2005 at 11:59 am
Quick Points:
— The Bible has been updated (not rewritten) to account for changes in language. But we don’t live in the middle-ages. You can now download software (e-sword.net) or learn Greek or Hebrew and see for yourself.
— There is a difference between murder and justice from proper authorities. God did not give that authority to the parents, but to the judges of Israel. It was to set them apart from the senseless child-killing that was going on around them (Lev 20:2)
Regarding the list from Leviticus, you’re taking many things out of context. If you want to look at each one in context and find out the reason behind each of those, and whether or not they still apply today and to what degree, we can do that. However, my guess is you really don’t care what the Bible has to say. You only bring it up, because you think it exposes some hypocrisy on my part, or on the part of Christianity as a whole. I think I can sum it up by saying; apart from Christ - there is no good in me.
Does it hurt me if you are bi-sexual, homosexual, polygamist, or whatever? I can argue that it does in some circumstances; but that’s a poor standard to judge by. AIDS in Africa doesn’t directly affect me, nor does incest in California. Yet, I’m sure you’d agree something should be done to help people in those situations.
But even if you were not talking about your sexuality, we could still be having a similar conversation regarding your lying or blasphemy, and I’d still be concerned for you and your soul. Does that make me a bad person??
Le_Sigh, I’ve studied the bible, the fulfilled prophesies, the evidence for its reliability. I believe it. So, If I believe what scripture says is true, that you must repent (that’s not just saying your sorry) and have faith in Christ to be saved, am I wrong for wanting to share that with you? Quite the opposite, I would say. I’m more at fault if I don’t tell you. It’s like I know the bridge is out, I have flares in my trunk, but I’m not setting them out – because you’ll probably just drive around them anyway.
But don’t take my word for it, Le_Sigh, pray - ask God to show you the truth, read the Bible for yourself, and then obey what you read. BTW: The Gospel of John is a lot less confusing place to start than Leviticus
May God bless you and thanks for taking the time to read what I had to say.