My reactions. First, Romney looked presidential (or what I think the American people think a president should look like – why does that even matter). It was a great call to return to the framework the founding fathers had intended. There was/is no separation of church and state in the Constitution. But there is something even conservative and Christian commentators are missing.
Comparing his speech to JFK’s is apples to oranges. Primarily because while we (Catholics and Protestants) have some huge disagreements in our religion. Catholicism is neither a false religion or a cult. Mormonism is, by definition, a cult where you can obtain Godship for yourself. God (according to Mitt Romney’s faith) was once a man who through his own goodness has become a god. I realize calling Mormonism or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints a cult may be offensive to those in “the church.” But see for yourself. Joseph Smith failed in his predictions of the return of Christ and many other “Thus says the Lord” prophesies. He was, by definition, a false prophet. Again, I am not trying to offend. Just pointing out what commentators are missing.
Along those same lines, Romney said, “There is one fundamental question about which I often am asked. What do I believe about Jesus Christ? I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Savior of mankind.”
Don’t be fooled by Mormon word-theft and hair gel!
Here’s what he really means [my comments in brackets]:
There is one fundamental question about which I often am asked [but never answer]. What do I [ok - well, Mormons] believe about Jesus Christ? I [avoiding the term Mormons] believe that Jesus [first born spirit of Heaven and Satan's older brother] Christ [not in the full atonement way] is the [physically conceived (iow: God and Mary had sex)] Son of God [also once a man from another planet, but now perfect and ruler of this universe, from the planet Kolob*] and the Savior [at least if you can't do it yourself, or no one prays you in after you are dead] of mankind.
[PS: this speech should make me a shoe in toward becoming my own God].
Look Mitt, just be honest and say, “You bet I’ll make a good president, I’m working my way up to ruler of my own universe – so I got a lot riding on this!”
Seriously, I will not vote for someone who belongs to a cult. Does that make me a bigot? Of course not. We should not give credence and a platform to any false religion. I also wont be voting for Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda or any member of the Branch Davidians, either.
* I swear, I am not making that Kolob part up!!!
Popularity: 3% [?]
How do you explain the difference between a false religion and a cult? Or maybe between a religion and a cult?
Neither would I vote for a cult-member, but my definition of cult has more to do with the behavior and practices of the leadership and membership more than with the theology.
Good to see ya pop in Smijer. From a Christian perspective a cult is a group that uses the Bible but distorts the doctrines that affect salvation sufficiently to cause salvation to be unattainable. Good question. I can’t believe I didn’t post that before. Thanks.
My big question is what’s wrong with telling folks it’s a cult. Why does that make me a bigot?
Ok – but is it really the theology of the cult that makes you untrusting of members to lead (such that you wouldn’t vote for any non-Christian, cult or not), or is it the factors that play into my definition – but which are not present in certain cults as you define them… such that you might vote for a member of the Jewish faith, but not for a Branch Davidian, since the former is likely to be a sane, rational person where the latter is more likely to be somewhat off balance?
I’ll not answer that question, since I don’t think that is enough evidence to call someone a bigot. However, knowing that the term “cult” is often taken (even if not intended) pejoratively, you might want to look for a better way to express of your theological differences with them.
[...] on one level (and on another level, somewhat agree)… but the attack is clever… Ron Shank: ‘Look Mitt, just be honest and say, “You bet I’ll make a good president, I’m working [...]
I’m not saying a Mormon can’t lead. In fact, because of a belief system that is so closely tied to their own “goodness“. One could make a good arguement that he’d make a better leader (on social issues anyway). However, Mitt has said, his faith won’t affect that. And he also has said that it’s possible to be pro-abortion and pro-homosexual (as he was when running for Gov of MA) without violating any Mormon principles.
Allow me to clear up my positions. 1.) I won’t vote for Mitt Romney (no matter his faith) because I don’t trust him. He’s changed positions with every election he’s run. 2.) I won’t vote for anyone who follows what I deem to be a cult. Because I personally see it as bringing legitimacy to the religion.
Good tip on the cult/bigot question.
I am supporting Ron Paul for President, and am a Mormon. Most of my friends are not members of my church, and I often have attended meetings or vacation bible schools with them and their families. I have the utmost respect for all of these people – how they lead their lives, and their devotion to Jesus Christ. However, one experience I had a few years ago serves to illustrate why Mormons believe we are Christian, and why we have trouble understanding why some people do not believe we are Christian. While attending vacation bible school with some friends in Raleigh, North Carolina, the pastor divided the adults into two classes – the “advanced” bible class, and the “beginner” bible class. My wife and I both served Mormon missions as young adults, and though a little leery decided to attend the “advanced” Bible class. It turned out that of the 40-50 adults, 6 people, including us, went to the advanced class. The class over the course of the week turned out not to be about the bible, but about the creeds of the Christian churches.
The first creed discussed was the Apostle’s Creed, which states:
=-=-=-=
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting.
Amen.
=-=-==
The teacher, who was not the pastor, then asked each student around the table what they thought of this creed. One expressed some reservation about Jesus “rising from the dead” and the part about “the resurrection of the body”, in that it implied that Christ arose with a body and that there will be a physical resurrection. Another did not believe the portion of the creed that indicated that Christ descended into hell. Another questioned how he could sit at the right hand of God if he was God.
My wife and I were the last ones to speak. Both of us answered that we felt the creed reflected the biblical teachings of Christ and the Apostles correctly, and we believed in the creed 100%.
My point is that many people “cling” to the different beliefs of Mormons from other Christian churches, while ignoring the fact that the core Mormons beliefs match the creeds of the early Christian church closer than the beliefs of their particular sect.
Even the controversy about Mormon belief/disbelief in the Trinity is enlightening. Mormons believe in the Trinity, although not in same way as most other Christian sects teach the Trinity. Mormons believe that the three members of the Trinity can be referred to as one God, as they are one in purpose, and never vary from one another in thought. Indeed, Mormons believe that if you have seen Christ you have seen the Father, because they look, act, think, and do exactly alike. The only difference between the beliefs, which is entire exagerrated, is that most other Christian sects believe the three members of the Trinity are three manifestations of the same being. But if the three are separate beings but think, act, and do as One, isn’t the net result the same thing?
There are many beliefs in different sects that outsiders could call “bizarre”, but at the core, Christians, including Mormons, believe the same basic things. Some examples of “bizaare things” that are either shared beliefs that Mormons have with other Christians, or are believed and taught by other sects, are:
Transubstantiation – (not a Mormon or Evangelical belief)
Virgin Birth – (a Mormon and Evangelical belief)
Worship of Saints – (not a Mormon or Evangelical belief)
Earth created in 6000 years – (most Mormons don’t believe, but no official Church stance)
Infallibility of the Bible – (not a Mormon belief)
Faith Healings – (a Mormon and Evangelical belief)
Prophecy – (a Mormon and Evangelical belief)
Speaking in Tongues – (a Mormon and Evangelical belief)
Jesus casting evil spirits into Pigs – (a Mormon and Evangelical belief)
Ty, thank you for stopping by. You make some excellent points; there are places where we have common ground. I don’t reject the teachings of the Mormon Church because of our similarities, but because of the differences. And while I think I’ve provided enough links where I think we are different, I’d like to focus on some of the ways we are similar. I’ve got a busy weekend, so it may be later in the week when I get back to you. Please stop by soon – or email me and I’ll let you know when I’ve posted a reply. I’ll email you my contact info. Again, I am glad you came by.
ACTUALLY, Mormonism, by definition, is not a cult. And do a bit of research before clammoring your closed minded report. Joseph Smiths “Prophecies” have actually NOT been proven wrong, just have not occured yet. Just to set the record straight, the Dictionary definition of a cult.
1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.
2. an instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers: the physical fitness cult.
3. the object of such devotion.
4. a group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc.
So don’t make cult sound like a bad thing, because if we are going by definition here, we are all in a cult of some type. Like “You” Catholics and Prodistants. People can call you a cult as well…no? Don’t be a hipocrite now
By “Definition”…the Mormon faith
Mormon is a term used to describe the adherents, practitioners, followers or constituents of Mormonism. The term most often refers to a member of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church), which is commonly called the Mormon Church. The LDS Church believes that “Mormon” may only properly be applied to its members; however, the term is occasionally used more broadly to describe any individual or group that claims belief in the Book of Mormon, including other Latter Day Saints groups. According to Latter Day Saint belief, Mormon is the name of the prophet who compiled the book of scripture known as the Book of Mormon.
So, if you want to ramble off more of your spin and twist on Romney and mormonism, at least get it right. Mormons do not believe God and Mary had sex. what are you michael moore now? Come on, be fair and true. Not hateful and deceptive.
I respect that Romney is very reserve about his religion. For lets remember, there is a seperation between state/religion. It is a very sacred believe to people of the LDS faith and not something Romney want strewn about in the media, as you have done here in your article.
You are all welcome to chalange anything I said and I will be happy to prove you wrong on all of the false things you enjoy saying. thetoughcrowd@yahoo.com