Are You Good Enough to go to Heaven?

by Ray Comfort

Of all the questions you will ask yourself in life, probably the most important is, Am I good enough to go to Heaven? The way to find this out is to ask yourself if you have obeyed the Ten Commandments. Most would answer the question, “Well, I’ve broken one or two, but nothing too serious, like murder, etc.” So, let’s go through them and see how you do:

1. “You shall have no other gods before Me.”

Is God first in your life? Do you love God above all else? Many years ago, I purchased a T.V. for our children, but the first evening we had it, I arrived home from work and found that they didn’t even bother to greet me. They were too busy watching television. I turned it off and explained to them that if they ignored me because they preferred to watch T.V. they were setting their love on the gift rather then the giver, a wrong order of affections. In the same way, if we love anything – husband, wife, children or even our own lives – more than we love God, we are setting our affection on the gift rather than the Giver, which is a transgression of the First Commandment. In fact, the Bible says that we should so love God that our love for Mom and Dad and brother and sister should seem like hatred compared to the love we have for the God who gave those loved ones to us.

We are also commanded to love our neighbor as much as we love ourselves. Jesus spoke of a Samaritan who found an injured stranger, bathed his wounds, carried him to an inn, gave money for his care and told the inn-keeper that he would pay for his expenses. We call him the good Samaritan, but in reality he wasn’t “good” at all, he merely obeyed the basic command to love his neighbor as himself. That is a picture of how God expects us to love our fellow human beings. We should love them as much as we love ourselves…whether they be friend or foe.

Have you loved God with all your heart? Have you loved humanity as much as you love yourself? You be the judge. Will you be innocent or guilty on Judgment Day of breaking that Commandment? I’m not judging you – I’m asking you to judge yourself before the Day of Judgment. The sentence for breaking this Commandment is death.

2. “You shall not make for yourself any graven image.”

This means that we shouldn’t make a god to suit ourselves, either with our hands or our mind. I was guilty of this. I made a god to suit myself. My god didn’t mind a “white” lie or a fib here and there – in fact, he didn’t exist. He was a figment of my imagination, an “image” which I shaped to suit myself. Is your God the One revealed in Holy Scripture? If not, then you have made your own god to suit yourself – you have committed the oldest sin in the Book. Scripture warns that no idolater will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

3. “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.”

Have you ever taken God’s name in vain – instead of using a four-letter word to express disgust, you’ve used His name? Hitler’s name wasn’t despised enough to use as a curse word. If you have used His holy name in that manner, you are a blasphemer and will not enter the Kingdom of God.

4. “Remember the Sabbath Day, to keep it holy.”

I ignored this command for 22 years. Even though God gave me the gift of life, never once did I ask what He required of me. I was guilty of breaking this Commandment.

5. “Honor your father and your mother.”

Have you always honored your parents in a way that’s pleasing in the sight of God? Ask Him to remind you of the sins of your youth. You may have forgotten them, but God hasn’t.

6. “You shall not murder.”

Jesus warned that if we get angry without cause we are in danger of judgment. If we hate our brother, God calls us a murderer. We can violate God’s Law by attitude and intent.

7. “You shall not commit adultery.”

Who of us can say that we are pure of heart? Jesus warned, “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery already with her in his heart.” Remember that God has seen every thought you have had and every sin you have ever committed. The day will come when you have to face His Law, and we are told that the impure, fornicators (those who have sex before marriage) and adulterers will not enter the Kingdom of God. Punishment for transgression of this Commandment is the death penalty.

8. “You shall not steal.”

Have you ever taken something that belonged to someone else (irrespective of its value)? Then you are a thief – you cannot enter God’s Kingdom.

9. “You shall not bear false witness.”

Have you ever told a lie? Then you are a liar. How many lies do you have to tell to be a liar? Just one. The Bible warns that all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. You may not think deceitfulness is a serious sin. God does!

10. “You shall not covet.”

That means we shouldn’t desire anything that belongs to another person. The covetous will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Who of us can say we are not guilty of breaking these Commandments? All of us have sinned, and just as with civil law, you don’t have to break ten laws to be a lawbreaker, so the Bible warns, “For whoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.”

A little girl was once watching a sheep eat grass and thought how white it looked against the green background. But when it began to snow she thought, “That sheep now looks dirty against the white snow!” It was the same sheep, but with a different background. When we compare ourselves to man’s standard we look pretty clean, but when we compare ourselves to the pure snow-white righteousness of God’s standard – His Law, we can see ourselves in truth, that we are unclean in His sight. That Law is the holy standard by which humanity will be judged on Judgment Day.

This may sound strange, but the worst thing you could do at this point of time is to try and clean up your lifestyle – you realize that you have sinned, so from now on you will keep the Ten Commandments, do good deeds, say the right things and think only pure thoughts. But should a judge let a murderer go because he says he will now live a good life? No, he’s in debt to justice and therefore must be punished.

The Law of God is merely like a mirror – all a mirror does is show you the truth. If you see egg on your face, you don’t try and wash yourself with the mirror, it’s purpose should be to send you to water for cleansing. Neither should you try and wash yourself with the mirror of God’s Law…that’s not its purpose.

The sight in the mirror is not a pretty one, but if you don’t face it and acknowledge that you are unclean, then all that “dirt” will be presented on Judgment Day as evidence of your guilt, and then it will be too late to be cleansed.

Perhaps you think that God is good and will therefore overlook your sins. But if you were guilty of terrible crimes in a civil court and said to the judge, “Judge, I am guilty but I believe that you are a good man and will therefore overlook my crimes,” the judge would probably respond by saying, “You are right about one thing; I am a good man, and it’s because of my goodness that I am going to see that justice is done, that you are punished for your crimes.” The very thing that many are hoping will save them on Judgment Day, God’s “goodness,” will be the very thing that will condemn them. If God is good, He should punish murderers. liars, thieves, etc., and Hell will be their dreadful fate.

What a terrible place Hell must be. If you read in the newspaper that a man received a $5 fine for a crime, you could conclude that his crime was insignificant. But if a man received multiple life sentences, you could conclude that his crime was heinous. In the same way, we can catch a glimpse of how terrible sin must be in the sight of God by looking to the punishment given for it – eternal punishment. Ungrateful humanity never bothers to thank God for His wonderful blessings of color, light, food, joy, beauty, love, and laughter, so He will take those blessings away from them. Instead of proving their gratitude by obedience to His will, they use His name to curse. Their punishment will be just but severe to the uttermost. Take the time to read what Jesus said Hell was like in Mark 9:43-48. I am afraid for you…please, look honestly into the mirror of the Law, then seek the “water” that cleanses every sin. If you don’t believe what I am saying about the reality of Hell, it means you think God is corrupt (that He hasn’t the moral backbone to seek justice), that Jesus was a liar, that the Apostles were false witnesses, that God’s promises are nothing but prefabricated lies, and there is no greater insult to God than to call Him a liar. By doing so, you are adding to your transgressions. Imagine if you reject the Savior, die in your sins and find that what I have told is the Gospel truth? Then it will be too late, you will be judged for you sins. If that happens, and your eyes meet my eyes on the Day of Judgment, I’m free from your blood. I have told you the truth, but if you choose to ignore it your blood will be upon your own head…you will have no one to blame but yourself.

Can you see your predicament? You are guilty of sinning against God Himself, and, because you have a conscience, you have sinned “with knowledge.” Isn’t it true that every time you lied, stole, lusted, etc., you did it with knowledge that it was wrong?

Does the fact that you have sinned against God scare you? It should. You have actually angered Him by your sin. The Bible says His wrath abides on you, that you are an “enemy of God in your mind through wicked works.” But let fear work for your good in the same way that a fear of jumping out of a plane at a great height would make you put on a parachute. Let your will to live open your heart to the Gospel of salvation.

I am not the only one who doesn’t want you to end up in Hell. The person who gave you this tract cared enough to give it to you and risk your rejection, and God Himself is not willing that you perish. To make clear what an incredible thing He has done for you in the Gospel, let’s look again to civil law: You are standing in front of a judge, guilty of very serious crimes. All the evidence has been presented and there is no doubt about your guilt. The fine for your crime is $250,000 or imprisonment, but you haven’t two pennies to rub together. The judge is about to pass sentence…he lifts his gavel, when someone you don’t even know steps in and pays the fine for you. The moment you accept that payment, you are free to go. Justice has been served, the law has been satisfied, and what’s more, the stranger who paid your fine showed how much he cares for you. His payment was evidence of his love.

That’s what God did for you, in the person of Jesus Christ. you are guilty, He paid the fine 2,000 years ago. It is that simple. The Bible puts it this way: “he was bruised for our iniquities . . . Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the Law being made a curse for us…God commended His love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.”

It was no small thing for Jesus to die for us. The only thing that would satisfy the demands of Eternal Law was the suffering death of the sinless Son of God. What love God must have for you! He suffered unspeakable agony, so that you wouldn’t have to be punished for your sins. His sacrificial death and resurrection mean that you need no longer be in debt to the Law, and God can now grant you everlasting life if you obey Him — death no longer has a legal hold upon those who belong to Jesus Christ.

Two men were offered a parachute while seated in a plane. The first man was told it would improve his flight, but the second man was informed he had to make a 25,000 foot jump. when the flight struck severe turbulence the first man took his parachute off because as far as he was concerned it didn’t improve the flight. but during the same violent turbulence, the second man clung tighter to his parachute. Each man’s motive for putting the parachute on determined whether or not they would keep it on. In the same way, the reason you should “put on the Lord Jesus Christ” shouldn’t be to find peace, joy, true happiness, to have your marriage healed or your problems fixed, etc. (to have your flight improved), but it should be to escape the jump to come – because of the fact that you have to pass through the door of death. Then, when the flight gets bumpy (when problems come) you won’t fall away from the faith.

What should you then do? Simply repent and put your trust in Jesus Christ as your Savior and Lord. Don’t put it off until tomorrow.

Would you sell an eye for a million dollars? How about both for $20 million? No one in his right mind would. Your eyes are priceless to you, yet they are merely the windows of your soul. Your life (your soul) is of such value, Jesus said that you should despise the value of your eye compared to it. He said that if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you, for it is better to enter Heaven blind than to go to Hell seeing. In other words, of all the things you should prioritize in your life, it’s not your health, your vocation, etc., it’s your eternal salvation.

Think of a man who has committed adultery. His faithful wife is more than willing to take him back, so what is the attitude in which he should approach her? It should be one of tremendous humility, asking for forgiveness, and determining in his heart never to even think of committing adultery again.

That’s how you should approach God. If you are not sure how to pray, read Psalm 51 and make it your prayer. Then put your faith in Jesus Christ in the same way you would put your faith in a parachute. You don’t just “believe” it will benefit you, you actually trust yourself to it by putting it on. Then, once you have made peace with God, read the Bible daily and obey what you read.

By the way, someone cared enough about you to give you this tract. Show God you love others by doing the same for them. Write to for a free list of unique tracts, books, tapes, and videos to help you in this respect.

211 thoughts on “Are You Good Enough to go to Heaven?”

  1. Frog Prince: OK, just quote the whole Bible while you’re at it. But it would be better if you would kinda summarize whatever your point is in your own words.

  2. (on the death of children)

    2 Samuel 12:21-23
    21 His servants asked him, “Why are you acting this way? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept, but now that the child is dead, you get up and eat!”

    22 He answered, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept. I thought, ‘Who knows? The LORD may be gracious to me and let the child live.’ 23 But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? ***I will go to him***, but he will not return to me.”

    (on the big bang)

    Isaiah 34
    4 All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved
    and the sky rolled up like a scroll;
    all the starry host will fall
    like withered leaves from the vine,
    like shriveled figs from the fig tree.

    (The parable of the life purposes)

    Matthew 25
    14 “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. 15 To one he gave five talents[a] of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 16 The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. 17 So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. 18 But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.

    19 “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 20 The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.’ 21 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

    22 “The man with the two talents also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.’ 23 “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’

    24 “Then the man who had received the one talent came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘***I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed***. 25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ 26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.

    28 ” ‘Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, ***into the darkness***, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

    Matthew 16:25
    25 For whoever wants to save his life/soul will lose it, but whoever loses his life/soul for Me will find it.

    (the patience of God)
    Luke 13
    6 Then He told this parable: “A man had a fig tree, planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. 7 So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, ‘For three years now I’ve been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven’t found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?’
    8 ” ‘Sir,’ the man replied, ‘leave it alone for one more year, and I’ll dig around it and fertilize it. 9 If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.’ ”

    (cosmic justice… what is “fair”?)

    1 Peter 4
    6 For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit.

    Revelation 6
    9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?”

    Matthew 7
    13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. …
    21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

    Romans 10
    17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:
    “Their voice has gone out into all the earth,
    their words to the ends of the world.”

  3. (on the conscience of men)

    1 Kings 19
    11 And He said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:
    12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.

    Isaiah 30:21
    21 Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.”

    Romans 2
    14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 ***since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts***, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

    (the lamb… *and* the Lion: this is no contradiction)

    Luke 17
    20 Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you.”
    22 Then He said to His disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. 23 Men will tell you, ‘There He is!’ or ‘Here He is!’ Do not go running off after them. 24 For the Son of Man in His day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. 25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

  4. @ GK: Yes. Furthermore, not only did Christ approve. As part of the Trinity, you can even say He commanded it.

    And TheFrogPrince (TFP) is correct in siting scripture to you, because your complaint is not with us, rather with God and His word. There’s nothing more I can say that would not echo post #178. Read TFP’s posts carefully and humbly, God’s word (the gospel) is the power unto salvation.

  5. i didn’t think you were coming back geoffrey! glad to ‘see’ you again. i’ll read all the above and perhaps have some input. hope all is well with you. ~colleen

  6. Right off the bat I noticed this continues to go in circles. I just read this article i’ll post, which in my mind, applies here without a doubt! Sorry Geoffrey, but all in all you made your choice. I hope you will change your mind someday before it’s too late for you. Forever is a long time to have to live with the fact that you were wrong, and may suffer that consequence for all of time. Bottom line is, we are ALL worthy of Hell. We have all sinned. We have all fallen short of perfection which is required to inherit God’s kingdom. By His loving grace, He sent Christ to pay the price. Belief in that and repentance is what brings you to pass from judgement into life with Him forever. Period. It’s a beautiful, loving plan, a beautiful, loving gift. Why you choose not to accept it is beyond me. Here’s what applies…

    Author Brent Rider says, “It is impossible without the Holy Spirit’s intervention for man to understand scripture. It is impossible to argue using just human logic and prove to someone that a point in scripture is true. The bible is the “sword of the Spirit” (Ephesians 6:17), not sword of man, so it is the Spirit that uses it to separate what is of the soul (man’s corrupt intellect) and what is of the Spirit (God’s truth in scriptures). (Hebrews 4:12).

    He also says,

    Scripture itself tells us how it came to be… ALL of it is “breathed out by God” (2 Timothy 3:16) and “came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Peter 1:21). Debate is not the method by which the Word of God is to be spread. The bible says “preach the Word” (2 Timothy 4:2-4), not “debate the Word” or argue the Word. It is the Lord’s work through the Holy Spirit, not ours, to convince and convict men of the truth. We preach it and let it be. We are to avoid “arguments”, “doubtful disputations” and words “to no profit” (Romans 14:1 and 2 Timothy 2:14). If someone has questions or wants honest discussion, answer them (1 Peter 3:15). If any will not receive the Word, though, they are being “willingly ignorant” (2 Peter 3:5 – Evolutionists!), and there is not a thing you can do to convince someone who is not seeking the truth but only to discredit what we preach and put forward their own agenda or follow their own blind leaders, they both end up in the ditch. (Matthew 15:12-14). Christ says in these verse to “let them alone.” We are also told if any man is (willingly or obstinately) ignorant, having been told the truth, let him be ignorant. (1 Corinthians 14:38).

    There is not time to waste trying to convince those who refuse to listen. “The night is far spent.” (Romans 13:12) and there is not much time left to reach those who DO have questions and who ARE seeking truth. One of Satan’s strategies has to be to tie up true believers with good knowledge and true motives debating in circles with whose who won’t listen instead of concentrating on finding those that will, and seeing them pass from death to life by our Lord’s grace. We are told to “redeem the time” in relation to preaching the “mystery of Christ” (Colossians 4:3-6). The 70 were told when sent out to preach the kingdom, that if they were not received in a city to say “even the very dust of your city which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you…” and move on! (Luke 10:1-12).

    You cannot win if you debate a non-Christian apologist on his terms. Satan has had over 6,000 years to polish up his lies to make them attractive to the human mind and soul. They “feel” right to the unsaved (Proverbs 14:12). Some of these lies are exposed as doctrines of demons (1 Timothy 4:1-4). If you read these verses you will see that scripture is brutally honest about who teaches them so that those who will listen can be warned who the liars are and avoid them! But when you argue with someone who will not listen and does not want to learn, all you do is go round and round with circular logic and lies.

    YEP–HE SUMMED IT UP WELL! ~colleen

  7. Hi Colleen,

    To sum up his (and your) philosophy then, if you can’t win with logic, paint your adversary as a demon. That’s the same lack of reasoning used by Muslim extremists to justify their acts of violence against those who don’t believe as they do. If every religious zealot had to prove the validity of their beliefs, we would have a much more peaceful and sensible world. Those who demonize logic cannot be reasoned with. I don’t know about you, Colleen, but I prefer the company of those who can reason and can be reasoned with, over those who are cock-sure of their beliefs without knowing why, and without caring to know why.

  8. Colleen,

    You are right. The night is far spent and we have tried. I did not mean to criticize you earlier about the websites. I just noticed that Geoffrey was only picking out something from each with which to argue.

    I am in the midst of the Beth Moore bible study, “Jesus, The One and Only”. Have you taken that study? It is really great and truly brings home to me the amount of suffering Christ endured as He resolutely ‘set his face for Jerusalem’ and continued all the way to Golgotha and Calvery just so we could be redeemed.

    Perhaps, if we continue to pray, Geoffrey will realize how much Christ loves him.

    May God bless you.

  9. Geoffrey,

    To sum up your philosophy then, if you can’t win with logic, paint your adversary as a Muslim extremist.

    Colleen, went around and around with you. But you don’t want to reason. You want to argue. We have gone out of our way to try and answer your questions and the answers are never good enough. Again, sorry to repeat myself, but your argument is not with us or our lack of logic, but with God Almighty. TFP gave you some excellent answers from scripture. I encourage you to pick up a Bible and do some research of your own and not to look us for answers. Frankly we are not capable of convincing you. Only God’s Holy Spirit can remove the scales from your eyes. And He may be willing to do that, if you humble yourself and turn from your sin. He will give you the faith you need.

  10. hi jann! my mom LOVES beth moore and has introduced me to a little of her teachings. she is a doll. i’ll look into the one you recommend. i was at a Christian bookstore the other day and saw her stuff. she took up a whole isle! i was wowed!

    no biggie on the “criticism” regarding the links to my preacher. (i didn’t take it as such). tommy is amazing, he’s an intellect, sound in his knowledge, practices “expository preaching,” believes in pre-destination, and only ONCE have i encountered what i personally believe to be error… when he expressed he doesn’t think dogs go to heaven. but that’s okay, i can argue him on that one. =) he used to lead the “song of solomon” conferences around the states. he got so busy and had to give some things up. you may have heard of him, has books out… from denton bible church in texas? he’s just the best teacher i know to recommend to anyone. i can sit at my desk and work while listening to him teach all day long. when GK knocked him in such an insulting way, i realized he is wasting my time, and all Christians time. he is not here to learn, only argue. it’s exhausting… and better to just pray for him that the Holy Spirit will soften his heart.

    i do want to say to you geoffrey, that to compare Christian’s reasoning to muslim extremists is so wrong. the difference between us and them, is (as you worded it) their justification to violence. Christians are taught to love our enemies and submit to persecution. big difference.

    and yes, we ARE absolutely sure of WHY we believe what we do, against what you stated. we have been chosen by Christ and have the Spirit dwelling in us. something you will not know, understand or believe in, until you humble yourself and repent to your Creator. only then will He reveal Himself to your heart. this i believe. you will stay in my prayers.

    jann and ron, it’s been a pleasure being a part of this lengthy conversation with you guys. not to say i’m not coming back to check in here, but just want to acknowledge it’s been something i’ve gained knowledge from, from your biblical perspectives, and in my own research to counter GK’s statements. i’ve really enjoyed it overall. even conversing with you geoffrey!

  11. Like all things, there’s a time to end the conversation. Thanks to all who participated. We have gone around and around here. Points have been clarified and I think all have had their chance to be heard. You can email me if you disagree. Ron Shank @ g mail [dot] com. Thanks to all who contributed.

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